Showing posts with label Interviews. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Interviews. Show all posts

Philosophy and the Great War. An interview with professor Pierandrea Amato

The below interview with Pierandrea Amato is dedicated to the Italian book La filosofia e la grande guerra ("Philosophy and the Great War", Mimesis, 2016) he recently edited with contributions of Luigi Alfieri, Alain Brossat, Giulio Maria Chiodi, Sandro Gorgone, Giuliana Gregorio, Gianluca Miglino, Giuseppe Raciti, Caterina Resta, Francesca Rizzo, Luca Salza and Pierandrea Amato himself. After many posts on literature, sociological and historical interpretation of the First World War we wanted today to give evidence to philosophy and its meeting with the global war of 1914-1918.

Q: Can we consider three different "philosophies": before, during and after the Great War? In other words and in order to keep the question simple, is there a philosophy that prepares to war, a philosophy that changes during the war years and a philosophy born in the battlefields?
A:It is certainly possible to establish a relationship between philosophy and the First World War, paying attention at the risk of a too simple determinism. Anyway it is true, as Gianluca Miglino (who teaches German Literature at the University of Messina) clearly demonstrates in his essay, that in Germany the philosophy of Erlebnis contributed – through a particular interpretation of Nietzsche’s thought – to create the cultural conditions for the beginning of the war. In this climate, for example, a philosopher like Troeltsch signed manifests pro-war. On the other hand, it is true (in the volume we remember Heidegger’s name) that the First World War creates a revolution of the philosophical grammar, giving to philosophy the task to elaborate the conjunction between thought and existence.

Q: Which is the main goal of this "composite" book about the philosophy and the Great War that you have curated?
A: First of all, the aim of the book is trying to demonstrate that the cultural problems, raised by the First World War, in occasion of its centenary, are extremely actual. In this sense, we would like to demonstrate that paradoxically nowadays the First World War is not the main object of historical knowledge. In particular, it was our intention to point out that the Great War opens one of cultural fundamental problems of the Twentieth century: how to think the unthinkable, namely the catastrophe.

Q: Could you mention the main philosophers and writers studied in the book and could you summarize their positions in front of the war?
A: It is notpossible for me now to summarize the different positions of philosophers and writers contained into the volume. But I can add that a lot of the authors( Benjamin, Breton, Freud, Thomas Mann, Tzara, Zweig, Heidegger, Croce e Gentile) are discussed starting from a precise point of view: how to tell, represent, think the horror of the end of an era?

Q: Which is according to you and all the contributors of this book the most relevant help that philosophy gives in the understanding of the reasons of the First World War and also in the understanding of what comes after?
A: The First World War is the apex of the triumph of modern industrialization and of State political hegemony. In this perspective, I will say that philosophy let us see that the Great War is, at the same time, the completion and the sunset of modern humanism. This means that it is not a kind of pathology, but the extreme and destructive expression of modern humanism.

Q: Any reading suggestion to go further with this topic of philosophy and the Great War? Thanks.
A: After the publication of the book, our research has expanded to the study of other disciplines (cinema, literature, photography, linguistic, archeology, geography). In purely philosophical field, compared to the authors discussed in the book, I would add only two other names: the 1918 first edition of Ernst Bloch’s Geistder Utopie and Paul Valery's considerations about the First World War (La crise d’esprit, 1919).

Women Writers of World War I. Interview with Margaret R. Higonnet


We are very pleased to host here below an interview with Margaret R. Higonnet, professor of English and Comparative Literature at University of Connecticut, Storrs. Our starting point is Lines of Fire. Women Writers of World War I, a very rich book she published in 1999.

Q: What was your main purpose when you started writing Lines of Fire. Women Writers of World War I?
A (MRH): When I decided to edit a collection of women’s texts about World War I, I was motivated in good part by my desire to write about some of these works and share their power. In order to reach my audience, I needed to make a group of those texts available. While certain major authors such as Virginia Woolf and Vera Brittain in England, or Edith Wharton, Willa Cather, and  Katherine Anne Porter in America were readily available, even famous authors such as Colette or Anna Akhmatova were harder for an Anglophone audience to track down. At the time, little work had been done to reprint women’s writings about the Great War. Among feminist critics, Jane Marcus, Claire Tylee, and Nosheen Khan had focused on English and American writers. As a comparatist, I was eager to bring to light those who wrote in other languages. While I wanted to include better known writers, I also was eager to include new names. Luckily, I could use the old card catalogue at Harvard’s Widener library, and call up books from the deposit library that had not been read for decades--not since they were first bought by librarians or donated by Harvard alumni in the years following the war. One of my favorite finds was a small selection of wartime issues from Anna Kuliscioff’s La difesa delle lavoratrici, which was lying on metal shelving in Harvard’s Littauer library. It was the only copy mentioned in the Library of Congress World Cat bibliography. Articles had been snipped out, perhaps even before the paper was acquired by Harvard. There I found the typical mix of material published in a women’s journal: political articles and poems, as well as advertisements.
Part of my interest in the project arose from the question, “What is a war text?” When Jean Norton Cru wrote his famous overview, Témoins (1929), which weighed the veracity of war memoirs and fiction, it never occurred to him that women might have anything to say about the matter. “War” meant “combat.” The underlying issue was whether a civilian population (whether female or male, adult or child) encountering war right on their doorstep might have “authentic” (and significant) experiences to recount. Should the record of a “total” war include the dramatic changes in women’s labor that had been precipitated, whether on farms, in factories, or in medical units on hospital trains? As it happens, the Great War was marked by the institutionalization of women soldiers on the Eastern Front, but their record had been largely forgotten, since the Russian Revolution and postwar political upheavals had refocused attention on other historical events.
At the same time, I belong to a generation of critics for whom the lines between “literary” texts and other kinds of discourse had been redrawn. Autobiographies were being reconsidered from aesthetic rather than historical perspectives. Critics reached back to a broader definition of “literature” that predated Immanuel Kant. Students of oral history had begun to interview women as well as men—and I was able to profit from the generosity of the historian Melvin E. Page, who sent me copies of interviews he had done in Malawi in 1973, but never used. Thus when I cast my net, I found myself reaching into territory that was largely unknown to me. Without the help of scholars like Page or translators like Ellen Elias-Bursac, I could never have put together this anthology. 

Katherine Anne Porter
Q: Could you briefly illustrate the structure of this book?
A (MRH): One historian recommended that I organize the selections by the proximity of their authors to the battlefront, a principle that would have reinforced the conventional focus on combat as the defining feature of war. Instead I followed a map of different kinds of public and private discourse to which women turned, at a time when their voices might have been repressed by traditional attitudes or censorship. My coeditors for Behind the Lines, Sonya Michel and Jane Jensen, urged me to include important political and historical texts. Political examples would be Klara Zetkin’s August 5, 1914, call for a mass protest by German workers against the war; the invitation by Dr. Aletta Jacobs to women to attend the International Congress of Women held at The Hague in April 1915, to urge the warring nations to use continuous negotiation in order to achieve peace; and the testimony of Hélène Brion at her trial for pacifist activities, considered to be treasonous. My first criterion of selection was a combination of historical significance and rhetorical power; I read one hundred pages for each page I included—and my editor at Penguin forced a further reduction, completely eliminating the genre of women’s drama and many of the images. By serendipity, I discovered that my five groupings of political texts, journalism, testimony (including diaries, memoirs, letters and interviews), short fiction, and elegiac poems corresponded roughly to five groups of women’s images, which range from political posters, to children’s literature, photographic documents, artistic lithographs and engravings, and memorial sculpture. 

Amy Lowell
Q: Different types of writing, this is the leitmotiv of your book. So not only poetry, but diaries, medical accounts, journalism etc. Is there a genre where the contribution of women writing is more meaningful according to your standpoint? If so, why?
A (MRH): You are quite right that the volume offers a broad spectrum of texts that address different kinds of audiences, in different voices, often hortatory, and sometimes in favor of war but most often opposed to it. One kind of meaning exposed is the gap between the responses by men and women; thus Zetkinand her female socialist colleagues opposed the war, while the German socialists in the Reichstag voted for the war credits. Another is the significance of the female body in wartime, both as a physical object of rape and as a political symbol. Women’s testimony brings their neglected experiences to the foreground. But from my own standpoint, the texts to which I keep returning are remarkable artistic responses to the impact of war, many of them written by women who had actually served in medical units. Some of my favorites are Mary Borden’s “Moonlight,” which explicitly describes the night-time dynamo of a hospital where sexual identities have been erased by cruel wounds; Hortensia Papadat-Bengescu’s “The Man Whose Heart They Could See,” which confronts a beating heart exposed by the slice of a shell across a man’s chest; or Gertrud Kolmar’s “November 9, ‘Eighteen,” which points toward the nostalgia for war that would erupt in the 1930s. A succinctly intense poetic form distinguishes the brilliance of Anna Akhmatova’s “Prayer” to God, to accept her sacrifice of all she holds dear, in order to halt the war. A two-line imagist description by Amy Lowell of a butterfly on a cannon projects the possibility of a peacefire, foreshadowing the conclusion of the movie, All Quiet on the Western Front. And the Malawi lament sung by Olivia Tambala poses the most important question we can ask: Why? 

Q: Finally, could you kindly share the titles of other studies on the topic? Thank you.
A (MRH): Probably my best known text about World War I is an essay I co-authored with my historian husband, Patrice Higonnet, entitled “The Double Helix,” in Behind the Lines. There we argued that in spite of women’s entry into new economic, social, and even military roles during the war, often replacing men who had previously held those positions, gender hierarchies tend to be reproduced. Recent work includes Margaret Hall’s Letters and Photographs from the Battle Country, 1918 – 1919 (2014), where I juxtapose the verbal narrative of a memoir with a visual narrative. Less familiar studies that I enjoyed writing might include "Civil Wars and Sexual Territory" in Arms and the Woman, edited by Helen Cooper, et al (1989), “The Great War and the Female Elegy,” which appeared in The Global South (2007), and “War Toys: Breaking and Remaking in Great War Narratives,” in The Lion and the Unicorn (2007), as well as “Child Witnesses: The Cases of World War I and Darfur,” in PMLA (2006). Outside the terrain of the war, I’ve enjoyed working on the relationships between words and images, as in a short essay, “Music Albums: A Tiny Gesamtkunstwerk” in Arcadia, ed. Mieke Bal (2003), as well as on the topic of suicide, for example, in “Frames of Female Suicide,” in Studies in the Novel (2000).

The Great War of Mario Puccini. The special project of "IoDeposito" dedicated to the Italian writer

A special thanks to the "IoDeposito" organization and in particular to Chiara Isadora Artico, Tancredi Artico and Joshua Cesa. They kindly accepted the invititation to reply to the below interview about their special project dedicated to Mario Puccini, an Italian writer whose legacy is particularly connected with the First World War in the Eastern front between the regions of Friuli and Veneto and Slovenia.

Mario Puccini
Would you briefly explain who is Mario Puccini to the International audience of World War I Bridges and could you state why he is a crucial point in the understanding and study of World War I in Italy?
TANCREDI ARTICO: Mario Puccini was a prolific and versatile Italian writer: born in 1887, he voluntarily took part of the WWI and eventually became an officer, between 1915 and 1918. He wrote thousands of pages: not only novels and collections of short novels, the genres for which he’s best known, but also poems, essays, translations, articles.
In a large quantity of his works he depicts the war experience, and he is able to do that in a poignant way, that touches the soul of the reader. His pen is emotional and precise, shows us not only the most terrible aspects of the conflict, such as death and human degradation, but also highlights what conflict - not only war - means to people, and how it destroys the simplicity of humanity. Puccini describing the WWI speaks to the present: he teaches to respect diversity and each form of life.

"Davanti a Trieste"
Q: Let's go now specifically inside your recent project namely the edition of the works by Mario Puccini. Could you describe it? How did you cooperate for the new edition of the books that Mario Puccini dedicated to his experience on the Kars and after Caporetto?
TANCREDI ARTICO: The aim of the project is to print Davanti a Trieste, the third (and least) Puccini’s war book, in the hope that this could be the first step of a Puccini’s “renaissance”. With that book I want to give to the reader the full text of this war diary (which is very difficult to find in libraries and is not available online), but at the same time I expect to give a general idea of Puccini’s three war books and a complete discussion of bibliography. This is not an useless operation, if we consider that the last research on Puccini’s literary production was done in the early 80’s, and that it doesn’t give an overview of his war books.

Q: This project is not only on paper. There's a multimedia side of it. Is it bilingual or are you planning to make it available as a multimedia bilingual project soon?
JOSHUA CESA: Technically speaking, the integration of a multi-language system is quite simple: the heart of the multimedia system created is a database which, because of its nature, lends to the cloning of the individual fields, automatically predisposing the translation.
Nevertheless, there is an issue intrinsically tied to the specific contents we want to propose in the project: Davanti a Trieste is a very complex work of literature, the interest of the project lies specifically in the nuances of the Italian language used by Mario Puccini: pulling up alongside a didactic apparatus in a different language besides the Italian one, could be a dangerous operation, if seen from the point of view of the Italian studies.
We are reflecting on the possibility of a multi-language hypertext, but the first step would be to prepare an accurate translation of the Puccini's text, which captures all the specificities of the author's writing style (and than, it would be possible to create also a critical apparatus in other languages).

"Il soldato Cola",
a popular novel by Puccini
Q: How are you going to promote your project? Are you planning presentations also outside Italy?
TANCREDI ARTICO & JOSHUA CESA: We have already started the promotion of the project: we have just organized a tour presentations in Italy (in libraries, universities and museums mainly in the region of Veneto and Friuli Venezia Giulia) and in Slovenia, interesting areas for our projects, rich of materials and experiences connected the theme of the world's conflicts.
We plan to continue the presentations again next year in Italy and abroad. The project has always had an international vocation: it was presented in London, and we are planning presentations and book trailers projections in Canada, United States, Australia, Belgium (leveraging on our network of international research partners).
This project is strongly connected with the area of the Italian studies, and as you know is not yet multilingual, but the methodologies we are using, and the author's literary production itself, it is raising a lot of interest in the international research community and towards the audience from different countries.

Q: What are your personal points of view on the several initiatives popping up for this Centenary?
TANCREDI ARTICO & JOSHUA CESA: We see around us that people are critical towards the idea of the Centenary: it is happening a moltiplication of the activities on the theme, and sometimes these activities seem a little bit forced. But we also see that the Centenary is bringing a new sensibility, which is more and more necessary today.
We believe that this centenary represents a real opportunity to give voice to the collective memory and to the investigation of the human experience during the First World War, exploring other perspectives on the conflict, looking at the individual and collective point of view, searching for the 'B sides' of the story, not considering anymore only the nationalist visions.
The centenary is a possibility to help us in facing the contemporary legacies of the conflict (invisible but still very present in our daily life) of which the today's generations are heirs.

INFO:
IoDeposito Ong:
Direct links to the web page about this project:


"After the Final Whistle. The First Rugby World Cup and the First World War." An interview with Stephen Cooper


Once again we are happy to move our attention on a book by Stephen Cooper. His newest After the Final Whistle (Spellmount Publishers Ltd) is again about rugby and of course about rugby during the Great War years. We had a nice dinner in Varago (Maserada sul Piave, Italy) in September 2014 talking about the progress of the book and the new researches involving also the territory of Italy. The book has been released last year during the Rugby World cup. Here below is his interview for which we thank him.

Q: "The Final Whistle" and "After the Final Whistle". Already in the titles, it seems there's a clear connection between your two books dedicated to rugby and the First World War years. Could you explain this connection?
A: All history writing is work in progress because the past continually gives up more of its treasures. At the time of publication of ‘The Final Whistle’ I had discovered 87 rugby players from Rosslyn Park who had died in the Great War; now the total is 109. The book itself gave new impetus to the quest, both for me and for readers who contacted me with possible names, but also stories of other players from other clubs and countries. Although I started to work on other projects (like a novel) I found the subject would not let me go; it even ‘followed’ me wherever I went. In September 2014, I found myself staying in a XVI century villa in the Veneto; on the wall of my room was an English hunting print from the 1850s, showing the home and father of one of my rugby players.

There was also a sense of unfinished business for me. As a new writer with ‘The Final Whistle’, I was nervous of talking about my personal inspiration, preferring to keep the book an objective history. As far back as 2009, I had taken a junior tour to Compiegne in France, where we played a memorial game against a French club which had lost 58 of its 120 members. An army officer addressed the teams before the match and said (in French): ‘rugby and warfare share a common language, but we must remember they are very different.’ This directly led to the first words of my book, where I explored that language of rugby and war. But I never really examined WHY rugby and the military should be so closely connected.

Two months after my return from Italy in 2014, I chanced across a reference to a rugby tournament played in 1919 by soldiers returning after the Armistice. The tournament was known as the King’s Cup. Teams came from the armies of Australia, Canada, New Zealand South Africa, France and Britain. I realised this was in effect the first ever world cup, long before rugby created its first official one in 1987 - and even before the first football competition played in Uruguay in 1930. With the Rugby World Cup arriving in England in September 2015 in the middle of Great War Centenary commemorations, here was a great opportunity to examine the rugby/war link again.

Q: How did you collect the material that gave life to this second book?
A: For once - now I had become an experienced internet researcher - I found there was very little information on the web about the King’s Cup. But perhaps in the early days I did not know where to look. There were no books ( which was good for me!) and only a few brief mentions. In order to persuade myself (and my publisher) that there was enough material to make a book, I went to the archive of the World Rugby Museum at Twickenham. An afternoon of reading contemporary accounts convinced me there was a book to be written. It would be called ‘After The Final Whistle’ because the King’s Cup was played in a new springtime of 1919, after four hard years of war, but it would be a companion to my first book, not a sequel. I also decided that I would cover all the rugby nations of the era (including USA) and necessarily include stories of survivors, not just those who were killed. This, after all, was the message of the King’s Cup- we have survived, it’s time to return to peaceful ways and sport again, and build new nations and a new world from the ashes of war.

Once the research started in earnest, I encountered the same wonderful enthusiasm around the world as I did with my first book. The Rowers Club in Vancouver, Canada, told me their story and sent me material. At the Oxford Cambridge Varsity match in 2014, I met many South African ‘Blues’, which led me to the unpublished diary of Frank Mellish, who was a wartime artilleryman, and played for England and the Springboks after the war. Contacts in Italy, France and Australia were unfailingly helpful. A twitter contact sent me pictures and letters from his club in Glasgow. And I spent a small fortune on Amazon and eBay tracking down old rugby books. When that failed I spent many hours in the wonderful British Library, reading books that cannot be found anywhere else.

Q: How long did it take to write this second book and how long did it take to write "The Final Whistle"?
A: . ‘Final Whistle’ took me 2 years. This book took 10 weeks – my publisher awarded the commission on 2 December 2014 and gave me a deadline of 16 February, in order to meet publication in time for the Rugby World Cup. I had to write in personal time, as I was merging two charities in my dayjob. I set myself a target of 2000 words every day and did the research as I was writing. I worked on Christmas Day and, as the deadline approached, was awake most nights at 3am, tapping away at my computer.

Q: What did you change in your approach to writing (if something has changed, of course)?
A:I kept the same very personal style. Not everyone likes it, but I thought it was important to have some humour and present day references, and not just write a dry academic history. But, crucially, I wanted to celebrate the human triumph of those who lived, not just mourn the tragedy of those who died. I wanted to span the big international players and their national teams right down to the small clubs and the unknown men. I also explored sidetracks and byways, simply because they interested me, and I thought readers would enjoy them. And I wanted to look forward to today where rugby can play an important part in healing conflict, as the inspiring work of Asad Ziar the founder of the Afghan Rugby Federation proves. I described my first book about 15 men as a ‘portrait in miniature’; this is painted on a much bigger global canvas.

Q: Are you promoting the new book? Where and how?
A: The book was published in the UK in August 2015 in time for the World Cup. I spoke at a number of literary festivals and there is a podcast from the UK National Archive (actually two). It has sold well since the RWC ended - I think readers were too busy watching the games! Around the world, it is easiest to find it on online bookshops like Amazon. It has been released in USA/Canada and Australia, but it is a book to be discovered.

Q: Could you suggest other book titles related to sport during the First World War?
A:. Clive Harris and Julian Whippy wrote an excellent book of sportsmen’s biographies in ‘The Greater Game: Sporting Icons who fell in the Great War’, as did Gavin Mortimer in ‘Fields of Glory’. ‘The Final Over’ by Christopher Sandford is all about English cricket in summer of 1914. Gwyn Prescott’s fine ‘Call them to Remembrance’ covers Welsh rugby internationals. Andrew Riddoch wrote ‘When the Whistle Blows: the story of the footballers battalion’. In French there is La Melee des Tranchees by Francis Meignan. Floris Van der Merwe has written ‘Sporting Soldiers: South African troops at play during World War 1’.

Q: Are you already imagining a third book? Thanks for your time.
A: So many stories from my first book haunt me and they now inspire my ambition to write a novel (I have done enough non-fiction history), especially the story of Robert Dale, the kite balloonist, who died in 1918 and now lies in Giavera cemetery. I am also working on another set in Sicily (a long story full of magical realism) and have an idea for a prison camp story in Berlin. Too many stories, not enough time.

Rediscovering Italian intellectuals: the new edition of the "Military Speeches" by Giovanni Boine. An interview with Chiara Catapano and Claudio Di Scalzo


Chiara Catapano, Claudio Di Scalzo and Andrea Aveto are the curators of an important forthcoming editorial project, namely the new edition of the "Military Speeches" (Discorsi militari, 1914) by the Italian writer and critic Giovanni Boine (1887 - 1917), probably the most neglected yet fundamental intellectual of the World War I period. We're pleased to offer you the following interview accompanied by the paintings of Stefano Parolari. 
Q: Could you briefly describe the book to the international audience of this World War I web site? 
A: The book offers, a hundred years after its release for the "Notebooks of the Voice" (“Quaderni della Voce”, a collection commissioned by Giuseppe Prezzolini with the publications of the literary journal "The Voice") the “Military Speeches” (Discorsi militari) of Giovanni Boine and some of its articles, really hard to find, which have appeared on some important national newspapers during the war years.
The “Military Speeches” are a kind of manual which intends to explain to every soldier concepts like homeland, honor, peace... and wants to be a compendium of the recent Italian history. It hasn’t be written for intellectuals, but for people who have just ended their elementary studies and it has been read by thousands of young people at the front. 

Q: Could you explain the original idea of this edition? Where does it come from? There are three curators: how did you cooperate? 
A: The idea came up to me and Claudio Di Scalzo studying the rich correspondence of the author, Giovanni Boine. We wanted to propose this study to the readers of our online magazine The Flying Dutchman (www.olandesevolante.com). We thought to create an anthology of some crucial literary passages to understand the cultural climate in Italy at the outbreak of the First World War. His correspondence (a wide work which has absorbed us for some years) has unveiled a refined wit, an argumentative mood with no compromise for anyone (the controversy with Benedetto Croce - David against Goliath - is perhaps the most evident example). Boine, like a lot of people at the time, was affected by tuberculosis: his premature death (he was 29) has allowed the dominant cultural groups to lead his opera to an equal premature oblivion. We don’t have to forget that after the II World War (the correspondence of the author was made available only from the 70s) the literary Critic wanted to interpret his work as fundamentally conservative, if not reactionary.
Nowadays we know that this schematically ideological "reading"is no longer sustainable.
Claudio Magris has written an incisive article in 2008 ("Why we must rediscover Boine," Corriere della sera, July 14, 2008), which invites us to read Boine.
The literary critic Carlo Bo who swept Giovanni Boine aside, in the years of his youth, in 2000, rediscovered the writer through his correspondence, and he formally apologized, admitting the mistake of reading it without grasping his genius.
Andrea Aveto has participated at the edition with a preface. He has intervened when the work was already at a good point but he gave us the occasion to learn more about Boine. He is one of the principal experts of the Ligurian author and he owns a correspondence with unpublished letters which have been recently discovered. It was natural to ask him to participate, and he gave a massive contribute for a different point of view on the re-presentation of "Military Speeches", something which no one had written yet and which enforced the luck of the text.

Q: What are the main points of intersection between the Italian writer and the First World War? 
A: The major point of interest, in our opinion, is the lucidity of Boine’s interpretation, of the historical events of his time and his surprising ability to predict the development of the future. When Italy had entered into the war, it ended up broken in two: neutralist and interventionists. There were movements such as Futurism of Marinetti, who supported the war as a "purification of the people"; and those who were against the "imperialist" massacre. The Boine’s point of view remains unique in the intellectual panorama of the time: he does not deny the past, as the futurists and the “vociani”, on the wave of a New Age and, at the same time, he doesn’t refer to the Tradition as a new religion to hold on to. He tries to solve within his conscience the node which dramatically involve a man in his historic contest and which, at his time, was supported by mass movements and ideologies. There are no "isms" that could mend the gap: he clearly states that each program will end in an ideology. The “Military Speeches” that we propose, as well as articles such as "Three Jews", which refers the thorny topic of Judaism are texts for which Boine has been crucified by some revisionist critics, but they were designed to open up the awareness of the complexity, even today, the theme.

Q: What did you discover while curating this new edition of the "Discorsi militari" ("Military Speeches")? What's new in your interpretation? 
A: The "Military Speeches" have to see the light after exactly a hundred years of their first release. This work has been too hastily judged by critics of the "left side" of the second middle of the '900 as propaganda and It has been misunderstood as justificatory thesis of the interventionism.
The truth is that this work shows its intents from the very beginning. It is an attempt to understand, to place this inevitable moment in the order of history. Boine tells us that from the reading of his book we might come out with new questions of a spiritual nature. It seems to suggest that the military life is also a form of freedom (the freedom to do our own duty); but between the lines Boine emphasizes the opposite: that the “civil” life has, without any doubt, no freedom as well. It is an illusion. So here is a “writer” who does not provide justification to anything, as they wanted us to believe. On the contrary, we see a man who thinks that before these events for which we can’t find a justification, it doesn’t exist a way to analyze them beyond any ideology and to place them in the world. Boine condemns this war in the letters to his friends and to the intellectuals who supported the interventionism. The “Military Speeches” is a manual that was distributed to the young people who were leaving to the front. There are summarized concepts like the homeland, the nation and the duty of a soldier. They are written in a language very different from what was his typical style. Here the language is intended for people who have received an education, but who are not writers.

Q: Let's go outside of Italy. Do they know Giovanni Boine? Why do you think we should encourage a wider and deeper knowledge of his work (with particular regards to the "Discorsi militari" ("Military Speeches")? 
A: Here in Italy Giovanni Boine is not really famous and rarely published. Often… If he is known he is, at the same time, misunderstood. Only few people have read his work, and what is know is what has been filtered by the critics who have made indigestible and contaminated his thought. Claudio Magris suggests that he remains a complex author, difficult to be read; the effort of the readers lays in leaving their prejudices, and in creating their own opinions. I do not think he is really well known abroad except for some University debate. Basically he is still unknown to the big audience. But I do believe that it is exactly in Europe that he could have his most fervent admirers, based on the fact that his thought is dip in the Mitteleurope philosophical musical and literary world. He studied Unamuno and Claudel; he attended lessons of Bergson and studied the best French literary tradition in Paris. He is interested even in Marx, whose works he wanted to read in German, because he wasn’t persuaded by other translations.

Q: Anything to add? (Even beside this book but keeping the focus on World War One and your studies and researches related to the war.) Thank you.
A: It would be necessary that all the work of Giovanni Boine, which is not a homogeneous collection yet, was rediscovered and translated for an international audience. For sure the author would find a big audience outside our borders. He was a spirit fell into the highest European literary and philosophical tradition; Italy, fragmented into a thousand provincialisms, cities, has not been able to understand him at that time. Today we would be ready to re-read him with a new spirit. Boine lived during the war and died a few months before its conclusion: his “eye which all-sees”, draws us into this world in an original way, creating new problems which we are not used to thinking about. He asks us to not be satisfied with the easy solutions that come from outside, but to become ourselves a sort of filter for the history. He asks us a greater effort with no promises of success. At the end of the day he lost: he died before reaching the destination. But it is precisely this effort, giving up everything which didn’t become evident in our conscious mind, that can the road to freedom. I would suggest to start to re-discover Boine from his letters, and then go deeper into his work: articles, studied philosophy, literature fragment which he interpreted in a very personal way. Boine is one of the best minds and spirits of our tradition, and it is time that we recognize it with honesty. 
Then I have to mention that the illustrations dedicated to the writer into the book, is a re-invention of painting which have been originated from real photographs by Stefano Parolari. 

Answers: Chiara Catapano and Claudio Di Scalzo
Paintings: Stefano Parolari
Translation of the answers: Martina Bradaschia

An interview with Tim Kendall about the poetry of the First World War


With great and real pleasure we introduce today interview dedicated once again to the poetry of World War One. This time we tried to enlarge our view, to other literatures and to novelists as well. This was possible thanks to the kindness and competence of Tim Kendall, poet, editor and professor at University of Exeter. Among his publications, we would like to remind Poetry of the First World War: An Anthology (Oxford, 2013), The Oxford Handbook of British and Irish War Poetry (Oxford University Press, 2007), Modern English War Poetry (Oxford University Press, 2006). The so called "war poetry" is probably the biggest part of his researches, but it's opportune to recall also his studies on Paul Muldoon (Paul Muldoon, Liverpool University Press, 2004 and Paul Muldoon, Seren Books/Poetry Wales Pr Ltd, 1996) and Sylvia Plath (Sylvia Plath: A Critical Study, Faber and Faber, 2001).

Wilfred Owen
Q: Let's start with the definition of "War poetry". As far as I know the English literature is only literature that "isolated" and grouped some texts under a similar strong "label", even if all countries developed their own war literature and poetry. Do you have a similar opinion and, if so, why do you think this happened? Was there at that time a kind of awareness of being a "war poet"?
A: The term ‘war poetry’ is an oxymoron: destruction and creation, ugliness and beauty. But, of course, war has been the subject of poetry as far back as we can trace. What made England different, in 1914, was the sense that poetry spoke urgently to our national identity. We were the nation of Shakespeare, of Henry V at Agincourt, and our civilisation was bound up with our literature: the greater the literature, the greater the civilisation. After all, we weren’t going to beat the Germans at music or fine art. So, to write a poem was, in some small way, to assert the very values which were under attack. Wilfred Owen told his mother that the only thing which would hold him together on a battlefield was the thought that he was defending the language in which Keats wrote.

Q: A conspicuous part of your studies and research is dedicated to First World World poetry. What brought you to these researches and could you illustrate your last book on this theme?
A: I was tutored by Jon Stallworthy at university. Jon was an immensely generous as well as a brilliant man, and he taught me to love war poetry. My latest book, Poetry of the First World War, is dedicated to Jon, who was the inspiration for so much of my work. 


Siegfried Sassoon
Q: Is there a particular initiative about war poetry (book, conference, event, other) that you want to point out in this "centenary mood"?
A: A great deal of energy was expended in the run-up to the centenary, to ensure that the familiar myths of the war’s futility, of lions led by donkeys, etc., were challenged. But the national curriculum is a rough beast to resist, and Blackadder and Oh! What a Lovely War et al. have ensured that the simple narratives are firmly entrenched. What I’ve most appreciated about the recent treatment of war poetry is an acceptance and appreciation of poets who speak truths to this new kind of power: sometimes, they dare to say, war is enjoyable, enriching, exuberant, as well as dreadful, wasteful, unimaginably brutal. More than that, most of the British poets of 1914-18 believed that the War was necessary. This can come as a surprise to those readers who only knew Owen and Sassoon.



Q: Let's now move to First World World English novelists for a moment. Which are still today the most popular novels and which are the novels that according to your standpoint would deserve a deeper attention (or perhaps a rediscovery)?
A: I’m a Kipling obsessive, and I think that his stories in Debits and Credits and elsewhere stand above any other war fiction that I’ve read. But they’re not novels. Jacob’s Room is the book by Virginia Woolf to which I return. I’m not sure, though, that Kipling or Woolf qualifies as a neglected genius. I would make a special mention of Penelope Farmer’s Charlotte Sometimes, published half a century after the Armistice. That does get overlooked, for no better reason than that it’s commonly classed as a children’s novel. Let me also say that some of the finest prose about the War came from the novelist Mary Borden, who served as a nurse at the Front. The Forbidden Zone is a hybrid masterpiece: memoir, prose poetry, a collection of fragments.


Q:The First World War was paradoxically the last war with a large number of poets, then something has changed in the relation between war and poetry. Do you agree with such statement or do you think it is only an exaggeration?
A: War breeds poets. Every recent conflict provides a cue for the poetasters to wring their hands and indulge their sensitivities. They always want to tell us what we already know --- that war is bad --- but also that they feel this particular truth more acutely than the rest of us. I think of Anthony Hecht’s ‘fierce Strephon’, whose poetry denouncing the Vietnam War brought not only fame but considerable profit: ‘a fate he shared---it bears much thinking on--- / with certain persons at the Pentagon’.


Q: Generally speaking and according to your experiences, what do English students know and study about Italian, French, German, American (etc.) war poets?
A: Generally speaking, absolutely nothing. My own small attempt to improve the situation is to promote the work of the entirely unknown American poet John Allan Wyeth, whose sonnet sequence This Man’s Army is the great forgotten book of the War.


Keith Douglas
Q: I would love to end this interview with your personal choice, namely a poem you would like to suggest to our readers. What do you propose us? And why? Thank you.
A The war poem which hurts me every time is Keith Douglas’s ‘Vergissmeinnicht’: a painfully candid account of the mixed emotions (love, pity, hatred, curiosity, pride, shame, even sexual satisfaction) provoked by viewing a dead and decaying enemy. If you want a First World War poem, I’ll return to Wyeth, and his poem ‘Picnic’. Sassoon wrote that ‘The rank stench of their bodies haunts me still’, but that’s mere mood music compared with Wyeth’s account of what the dead smell like: ‘We drove through Bayonvillers---and as we ate / men long since dead reached out and left a smirch / and taste in our throats like gas and rotten jam’. And the nonchalant payoff of his sandwich-munching companion as Wyeth remarks that the corpses ‘smell pretty strong’: ‘I’ll say they do, / but I’m too hungry sir to care a damn.’

"Sand to Snow: Global War 1915". Interview with Doran Cart, Senior Curator at the National World War I Museum

Q: Special Exhibition "Sand to Snow: Global War 1915". Where does the exhibition concept come from?
A: When we were discussing how to observe the Centennial of WWI we decided that each year from 2014-2019 would feature critical events of each year. When I arrived at the idea for 1915 of a truly global war by that time with the entries of Italy and Bulgaria and with the contributions of neutral nations like the USA and Spain and the world-wide setting for battles and other actions, it was a natural fit.

Q: I was thinking about the title you chose. It seems that geography is a preeminent driver in this title. Do you confirm this also for the exhibition project and layout?
A: The title Sand to Snow reflects the physical geography and environments of the globe where the war was taking place, but also an example of where this occurred in a small area like Gallipoli where there was sand and also blizzards within the period of 1915.  Also I wanted to feature nations not normally discussed.

Q: Could you say something about the layout of "Sand to Snow: Global War 1915"?
A: There are eight exhibit cases and each deals with a different front from the Western Front to the African Front. There is no chronological layout so the visitor can explore the years through each of the case studies.

Q: Your attention is on the "special year" 1915 and both on belligerent and neutral countries. What's interesting while analyzing the case of neutral countries and what does the exhibition point out in their cases?
A: Even though the United States was technically neutral in 1915, support for the Allies was ongoing. While many did not support any efforts to aid the Allies or even think about going to war, the Preparedness Movement in the U.S. started in 1915 with the Plattsburgh training camp. Theodore Roosevelt and Leonard Wood were the principle proponents of this movement. 

In the summer of 1915, under pressure from the National Security league and other patriotic groups, the War Department opened a training camp in Plattsburg, New York, where regular Army officers prepared the sons of well-to-do businessmen, at the trainees’ expense, to become future officers in the event of war. 1200 young men attended that first summer. There was a preparedness camp for women at the Women’s National Service School Camp near Washington, D.C.

Americans almost immediately volunteered for humanitarian and military service primarily with the Allies after the war broke out. They volunteered as ambulance and truck drivers, as hospital workers, as doctors and nurses. They crossed into Canada and received military training and were sent to Europe to fight under Allied flags. Americans joined the French Foreign Legion.

The connections between Belgium and the United States in World War I began long before America became a combatant and continued after the Armistice. Almost immediately after the war started, relief and volunteer organizations were created to provide food and other means of support for the people of occupied Belgium.

Switzerland’s neutrality, while stated in the Treaty of Paris of 1815, was more substantiated by its traditional position as the “Good Samaritan of the nations.” The Federal Council had issued a Declaration of Neutrality in August, 1914 that the country was “firmly resolved to depart in no respect from the principles of neutrality so dear to the Swiss people.” With Italy’s entrance into the war in 1915, all of Switzerland’s borders were surrounded by belligerents.

Switzerland did care for refugees, assist in prisoner exchanges and in 1915 placed at the disposal of the belligerents the services of the Swiss Red Cross. Even though Switzerland maintained a defensive force, it did not represent a threat to her neighbors. Military service was compulsory for men aged 20 to 48 years old. In 1915, the Swiss Army numbered around 200,000 men.


Lusitania paper weight
Spain was neutral as far as being an active combatant in the war, but by 1915 Spanish arms manufacturers, especially in the Eibar region were major suppliers of weapons, especially pistols and revolvers. France, Italy and Great Britain purchased a large number of weapons from Spain. The most popular pistol was the variant of the Colt 1903 Pocket Auto in 7.65mm. They were sold under many names including the “Lusitania.”

The Netherlands remained neutral throughout the war, but the war affected the country in many ways including their economy and making plans for the defense of her borders. Hundreds of thousands of Belgian refugees sought safety in the Netherlands.

The RMS Lusitania was a British ocean liner built in 1906 and owned and operated by the Cunard Company. Lusitania sailed on her maiden voyage out of Liverpool, England on 7 September 1907 and arrived in New York, United States, on 13 September.  On 7 May 1915, Lusitania was torpedoed off the coast of Ireland by the U-20, sinking in 18 minutes.  Of the, 1960 people on board, 768 survived and 1,192 perished.

Lusitania was carrying a number of Americans, women and children and citizens from other neutral countries including Mexico, Spain, Brazil and Sweden. It also carried war materiel including rifle and machine gun cartridges. The sinking of the Lusitania and resulting deaths of civilians and neutral nationals aboard the ship is considered one of the first modern examples of “total war” and a turning point in World War I.


Australian uniform and equipment
Q: Could you also anticipate other initiatives coming from National World War I Museum at Liberty Memorial for the upcoming Centennial years? Thanks for your time.
A: The Museum will have several additional special exhibitions during the course of the Centennial. In July, the Museum opens a special exhibition featuring a large collection of Australian War Art, currently on display at the Australian Embassy in Washington, D.C. In May 2016, the Museum will debut another special exhibition called “They Shall Not Pass: The Somme and Verdun.” That will be followed in 2017 with “Change the World: America Goes to War” and “Posters as Munitions.” In 2018, we will debut “The Human Record of War” and “Art and World War I.” In addition to the special exhibitions on display at the Museum, we have also curated online special exhibitions during the Centennial. To date, the Museum has launched  three interactive online special exhibitions: War Fare: From the Homefront to the Frontlines, The Christmas Truce, Winter 1914 and Home Before the Leaves Fall.


(We would like to thank Mike Vietti, Marketing & Communications Manager at the National World War I Museum, for his precious help in collecting this interview)

The Great War in Nord Africa: an interview with Francesco Correale

We are today pleased to offer an interview with Francesco Correale, historian at the CNRS (UMR 7324 CITERES), Tours. He is the author of an important book – La Grande Guerre des Trafiquants. Le front colonial de l’Occident maghrébin (Harmattan, 2014) – in which he offers new insights into another forgotten front of the Great War: the Northwest African countries. Focusing on a (often neglected) aspect of the colonial history, i.e. the weapons smuggling, Correale describes the central role played by resistance movements in the French colonies with the German support and succeeds so in showing how history is not at all the devastating bulldozer that one may think, it leaves underground passages, crypts, holes and hiding places – if we want to recall Eugenio Montale’s poem, that Correale quotes at the beginning of his book. Indeed, the history of the First World War in Maghreb is like an ignored underground passage below the well explored landscape of the European fronts; we can now start to walk anew this passage with the help of Correale’s researches that we can approach in the following interview. This is a unique chance to discover at least few central features of this Mediterranean shore of the war and realize how little we know about the history, the culture and the traditions of these countries. We thank therefore once again Francesco Correale.

Woodrow Wilson
WWIB: Can you briefly explain how the anticolonialist movement in Maghreb was related to WWI?
FC: Nationalist movements in Maghreb are connected to World War I by a “triple link”. First by the participation of some people in the military operations against the colonial  power in situ, in the context of the Great War in North Africa. It includes not only those people who will afterwards enter, in one way or another, the national liberation movements in the different Maghrib Countries, but also those people who become a sort of “founding myth” of the fight against European colonialism and therefore a reference point for the next generations of nationalists.
Second by the participation, bon gré mal gré, of conscripted North African soldiers into colonial armies (the so-called “troupes coloniales”), particularly the French ones, to fight on the European frontlines. Joining both European trenches and political circles (especially the Socialist Parties), they developed their political consciousness and then spread it once they returned to their countries. Third by the echo of Woodrow Wilson’s statement about the new order which had to be established after the end of the Great War - the so-called Fourteen Points. They had a strong impact in terms of claim of rights expressed by most of the political leaders in Maghrib countries towards colonial administrators after the end of the Great War and until the independence.

Mulai Ahmed er Raisuni
WWIB: Could you introduce the protagonists and the main events in the history of the Great War in Maghreb?
FC: In my book I analyse the First World War in current Morocco, Western Sahara and northern Mauritania. The actors in these countries are the French and Spanish colonial authorities, on the one side, and, on the other side, the German-Turkish spy network with its head office in the neutral Spain. German-Turkish authorities sent weapons, money and instructors to most of the anti-colonial resistance leaders. But the very central actors are the leaders of the resistance movements.
I.          I.     Ahmad al-Raîsuni, active in the North-West region placed between Tangier and the French military zone, within the area of Spanish influence. Sometimes operating in perfect harmony with the Spanish troops, he kept a strong anti-French attitude and, by virtue of his title of Sharif (i.e. descendant of the Prophet Muhāmmad), he seemed to aspire to the Moroccan throne, or, at least, to become“Khalifa” and represent the ‘Alawi Sultan in Tetuan, the capital of the Spanish area.
II.         Abd al-Malik, active between the eastern borders of the Spanish area and the region of Taza, in the centre of the French Morocco. This actor and his political views are usually scarcely mentioned in history books. Last son of the Algerian Emir ‘Abd-al Qādir,' Abd al-Malik was born in Damascus and settled later in Tangier, serving the French police in the town. A few months after the outbreak of the hostilities in Europe, he became a fervent partisan of the German-Turkish coalition; this choice was more in agreement with his origins. He created in the middle of the French Protectorate a small army, which was supported with weapons, money and men by the Germany through the Spanish Moroccan area. Impregnated with pan-Islamic principles, he is probably the most idealistic of the leaders of the resistance, but it was quite hard to him to impose his power over all the tribes. Indeed, they considered him as a “foreigner” because “alien” to the Moroccan environment.
III.         Ahmad al-Hayba, active in the Southern region, from the Sūs to the Mauritanian Adrār. Proclaimed Sultan of Morocco in August 1912, in Marrakesh, he was defeated by the French army in September. He took over the reins of the anti-French struggle since the beginning of the hostilities in Europe. He was the son of Sheikh Mā’ al- ‘Aynayn, leader of the Saharan anti-colonial resistance between 1905 and 1910. In fact, his political action can be considered the pursuit of the agenda of his father, who died in 1910. Al Hayba settled in southern Morocco but had emissaries all over the Western Sahara. Colonel Francisco Bens, the Spanish officer in charge of the administration of the colony of Rio de Oro since 1903, was forced to negotiate with Al Hayba in 1916, in order to establish the Spanish settlement in the region of Tarfaya, the southern zone of Spanish influence in Morocco. Even al-Hayba (often improperly called “Blue Sultan” from French and Spanish historiography, an appellation used to designate his brother and successor Murabbī Rabbū) aimed for the Moroccan throne, seriously worrying so General Lyautey, the French General Resident in Moroccan Protectorate. Lyautey feared a change of dynasty like that occurred centuries before, when the Almoravids and the Almohads came from the areas of the Sahara to conquer all territories until the al-Andalūs.
These three chiefs were considered by German and Ottoman authorities the main leaders of Morocco-Saharan resistance movements against French colonial powers. Nevertheless, it is worth mentioning the so-called Berber resistance in the Middle Atlas as well. Berbers brought together various leaders and, quite independently from the strategies of Berlin and Istanbul, led a struggle against the colonial troops. One of the most evident consequences was the French defeat, on 13th November 1914 in El-Harri: 600 dead men (including 33 officers), a high number of wounded and disappeared soldiers and two batteries of cannons got lost.
Regarding the geographic areas that I didn’t take into account in my book, it is worth emphasizing the anti-Italian action of the Sanūsiyya, a Muslim political-religious Sufi order and tribe active in Libya and the Sudan region, which received the support of Turkish and German reinforcements. We should also mention the Niger, where a revolt took place of 1917: it is known as the “Kaocen revolt”, by the name of the Tuareg chief, also supported by German instructors against the French.
It is a fact however that the history of First World War in North Africa suffers from an important historiographical void. The development of new researches on this topic could bring out therefore new and unexpected actors. At the same time, it’s worth underlining that the above mentioned leaders of the anticolonialist resistance, who were active before the outbreak of the Great War, kept directly in touch with their Turkish-Germans allies (like Ahmad al-Hayba or ‘Abd al-Malik did), otherwise they failed to link (although indirectly) their action with the Great War historical and political context. They took advantage of the emergency situation as consequence of the War in the colonized areas of Maghreb. No surprise that the colonial authorities feared a great revolt assisted by Turkish-German forces across North Africa.


WWIB: How did you start to work at this book? Which sources did you use during your researches?
FC: The book is the result of my doctoral thesis, defended in 2003 at the University of Aix-Marseille I, under the direction of Robert Ilbert. Actually, my previous researches were not really focused on the First Wold War. I was rather interested to the issue of weapons traffic in Moroccan-Saharan regions, between the late 19th and the early 20th century. Then I came across a body of archives completely dedicated to the First World War and to be more precise to the conflict in Morocco; so I decided to focus my text on the years 1912-1918.
The collection of documents was carried out in the most important archives in France (Archives of Foreign Affairs, which was at that time located in Paris, while today it is in La Courneuve; the Archives Nationales dOutre-Mer, in Aix-en-Provence; the Military Archives in Vincennes; the Centre of diplomatic Archives in Nantes), in Spain (Archivo General de la Administración, Alcalá de Henares and Archives of Foreign Affairs in Madrid), in Belgium (the Archives of the Foreign Affairs in Brussels), and of course in Moroccans (Archives of the Protectorate stored in Rabat).

Les tirailleurs marocains
WWIB: We know that you often work in loco, so we can suppose you are an expert of the culture of this region. Can we talk about a WWI remembrance in Maghreb? Is there any interest for the Centenary? Do people still link WWI and colonialism?
FC: A memory of the First World War can be found in Morocco, but it does not mention the events I write about in my book. These events have been “forgotten” in the name of a dynastic legitimacy (that of the Royal family at the power), which was specifically questioned by the leaders of the anti-colonial resistance. The memory of World War I in Morocco is mainly related to the “tirailleurs marocains”, who actively fought on the European fronts. Very few references can be found about the close relationship between colonialism and the Great War. The interest for the Centenary is therefore connected to the claim of a role of Moroccan troops in the defence of the French soil against the German invasion. This attitude often seems the result of a cultural subordination (in a “Gramscian sense”) of the Moroccan to the European point of view and celebrative registers of the Great War, or to affirm in support of the present generations the rights to live in France (and in the other European countries) given that their grandparents  fought there during the World War. These attitudes omit the fact that, for example, the “tirailleurs” were often recruited by force or that many appealed to the extremely critical social and economic conditions of the Moroccan population during those years.

WWIB: Do you think that the Centenary may offer an opportunity to increase the attention of the scholars also for these peripheral fronts?
FC: I think it is a duty for the organizers of the various events related to the Centenary, to affirm and remember that the Great War took place, in fact, “in the world”.
In my opinion, the centenary offers a central opportunity to stress the “worldwide” dimension of the Great War. The carnage that took place in Europe was not the unique consequence of that conflict: an important historiographical operation has to be made to improve the knowledge of the other fronts.

WWIB: Does it still make sense to speak about peripheral fronts if we all call it the First “World War”"? Isn't this a kind of contradiction?
FC: Yes, it is a contradiction that has its roots in the ethnocentrism of the First World War European historiography. According to this historiography, the German-French front is the most important place of the war. Hence, all the other fronts turn out to be marginalised, including the other European fronts. Stressing this point, I call into question not only the spatial dimension of the conflict, but also the temporal one. How to deny, for example, that the World War I could have begun when Italy invaded Tripolitania and Cyrenaica? How to forget the Ottoman-Italian war, in 1911, or the Balkan wars in 1912, where all the protagonists of the following WWI were ready to enter a larger theatre of conflict in 1914?  A most truthful perspective may be opened if we consider a unique historical continuum starting from 1911. It would be a pity for the scientific community not to take advantage of the opportunity offered by the centenary, to keep the memory of the Great War in Europe alive, but also to revise other important aspects of this crucial event such as, for example, the chronology of the conflict.